Sunday, June 24, 2007

Does AA Work?

Bill W., co-founder of AA

Adapted from The Chemical Carousel: What Science Tells Us About Beating Addiction © Dirk Hanson 2008, 2009.

Despite recent progress in the medical understanding of addictive disease, the amateur self-help group known as Alcoholics Anonymous, and its affiliate, Narcotics Anonymous, are still regarded by many as the most effective mode of treatment for the ex-addict who is serious about keeping his or her disease in remission. A.A. and N.A. now accept anyone who is chemically dependent on any addictive drug—those battles are history. In today’s A.A. and N.A., an addict is an addict. A pragmatic recognition of pan-addiction makes a hash of strict categories, anyway.

Nonetheless, under the biochemical paradigm of addiction, we have to ask whether the common A.A.-style of group rehabilitation, and its broader expression in the institutionalized form of the Minnesota Model, are nothing more than brainwashing combined with a covert pitch for some of that old-time religion. As Dr. Arnold Ludwig has phrased it, “Why should alcoholism, unlike any other ‘disease,’ be regarded as relatively immune to medical or psychiatric intervention and require, as AA principles insist, a personal relationship with a Higher Power as an essential element for recovery?”

The notion is reminiscent of earlier moralistic approaches to the problem, often couched in strictly religious terms. It conjures up the approach sometimes taken by fundamentalist Christians, in which a conversion experience in the name of Jesus is considered the only possible route to rehabilitation. But if all this is so, why do so many of the hardest of hard scientists in the field continue to recommend A.A. meetings as part of treatment? Desperation? Even researchers and therapists who don’t particularly like anything about the A.A. program often reluctantly recommend it, in the absence of any cheap alternatives.

In 1939, Bill Wilson and the fellowship of non-drinkers that had coalesced around him published the basic textbook of the movement, Alcoholics Anonymous. The book retailed for $3.50, a bit steep for the times, so Bill W. compensated by having it printed on the thickest paper available—hence its nickname, the “Big Book.” The foreword to the first printing stated: “We are not an organization in the conventional sense of the word. There are no fees or dues whatsoever. The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone. We simply wish to be helpful to those who are afflicted.”

In short, it sounded like a recipe for complete disaster: naive, hopeful, objective, beyond politics, burdened with an anarchical structure, no official record
keeping, and a membership composed of anonymous, first-name-only alcoholics.
Amid dozens of case histories of alcoholics, the Big Book contained the original Twelve Steps toward physical and spiritual recovery. There are also Twelve Traditions, the fourth one being, “Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.” As elaborated upon in Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, “There would be real danger should we commence to call some groups ‘wet’ or ‘dry,’ still others ‘Republican’ or ‘Communist’…. Sobriety had to be its sole objective. In all other respects there was perfect freedom of will and action. Every group had the right to be wrong. The unofficial Rule #62 was: “Don’t take yourself too damn seriously!”

As a well-known celebrity in A.A. put it: “In Bill W.’s last talk, he was asked what the most important aspect of the program was, and he said it was the principle of anonymity. It’s the spiritual foundation.” Co-founder Dr. Bob, for his part, believed the essence of the Twelve Steps could be distilled into two words—“love” and “service.” This clearly links the central thrust of A.A. to religious and mystical practices, although it is easily viewed in strictly secular terms, too.

Alcoholics Anonymous recounts a conversation “our friend” had with Dr. C.G. Jung. Once in a while, Jung wrote, “…alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences…. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements.” As stated in Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, “Nearly every serious emotional problem can be seen as a case of misdirected instinct. When that happens, our great natural assets, the instincts, have turned into physical and mental liabilities.”

Alcoholics Anonymous asserts that there are times when the addict “has no effective mental defense” against that first drink.

Bill Wilson wrote:
"Some strongly object to the A.A. position that alcoholism is an illness. This concept, they feel, removes moral responsibility from alcoholics. As any A.A. knows, this is far from true. We do not use the concept of sickness to absolve our members from responsibility. On the contrary, we use the fact of fatal illness to clamp the heaviest kind of moral obligation onto the sufferer, the obligation to use A.A.’s Twelve Steps to get well."

This excruciating state of moral and physical sickness—this “incomprehensible demoralization”—is known in A.A. as hitting bottom. “Why is it,” asks Dr. Arnold Ludwig, “that reasonably intelligent men and women remain relatively immune to reason and good advice and only choose to quit drinking when they absolutely must, after so much damage has been wrought? What is there about alcoholism, unlike any other ‘disease’ in medicine except certain drug addictions, that makes being in extremis represent a potentially favorable sign for cure?”

Hitting bottom may come in the form of a wrecked car, a wrecked marriage, a jail term, or simple the inexorable buildup of the solo burden of drug-seeking behavior. While the intrinsically spiritual component of the A.A. program would seem to be inconsistent with the emerging biochemical models of addiction, recall that A.A.’s basic premise has always been that alcoholism and drug addiction are diseases of the body and obsessions of the mind.

When the shocking moment arrives, and the addict hits bottom, he or she enters a “sweetly reasonable” and “softened up” state of mind, as A.A. founder Bill Wilson expressed it. Arnold Ludwig calls this the state of “therapeutic surrender.” It is crucial to everything that follows. It is the stage in their lives when addicts are prepared to consider, if only as a highly disturbing hypothesis, that they have become powerless over their use of addictive drugs. In that sense, their lives have become unmanageable. They have lost control.

A.A.’s contention that there is a power greater than the self can be seen in cybernetic terms—that is to stay, in strictly secular terms. The higher power referred to in A.A. may simply turn out to be the complex dynamics of directed group interaction, i.e., the group as a whole. It is a recognition of holistic processes beyond a single individual—the power of the many over and against the power of one.

“The unit of survival—either in ethics or in evolution—is not the organism or the species,” wrote anthropologist Gregory Bateson, “but the largest system or ‘power’ within which the creature lives.” In behavioral terms, A.A. enshrines this sophisticated understanding as a first principle.


errant nonsense said...

AA works for Alcoholism. A.A. does not "accept anyone who is chemically dependent on any addictive drug" as you suggest. There is no battle. Some groups have dropped the idea of singleness of purpose and will allow anyone to talk about food, blackjack, whoring, etc., but AA is pretty clear about it's primary purpose. This has not changed. It's actually not a disease. This was the rehab scam. Alcoholism, and some believe other "addictions" are a spiritual malady or "illness" (as the literature names it) that require a spiritual fix. Nothing else works for some.

Ducking and dodging people, responsibilities, authorities, etc., whether actually valid or not, is the reason many continue with whatever "addiction" consumes them. The program insists on setting things right with others. The rest follows. This is the core of the program that many who fail either refuse to acknowledge and work toward or just miss somewhere in the "passing parade" as it is likely some "experts" have.

Dirk Hanson said...

I think we're basically in agreement here.

The position officially maintained by Bill. W. was that alcoholism was “an allergy of the body and an obsession of the mind." You need to treat both aspects of it.

Anonymous said...

"Is it possible to purchase this book?"

Dirk Hanson said...

Thanks for your inquiry.

The material is excerpted from a book being represented by the Frederick Hill-Bonnie Nadell Literary Agency, San Francisco/Los Angeles.

To date, we do not have a publisher for the completed manuscript of "Addiction: The Search for a Cure."


Anonymous said...

Here's a website you may find useful. is a site for friends, families, and those who suffer from various addictions.

Dirk Hanson said...

Thanks anonymous, that site looks interesting. I'll check it out.

Dirk Hanson

MICKY said...

It is important to note that Bill Wilson's faith system was not based on Jesus Christ and Him crucified; nor is there any mention of Jesus Christ being the Savior from his sin. Both he and Bob Smith (co-founder of AA) embraced and promoted a variety of spiritual experiences, which included practicing spiritualism and conversing with the dead (which the Bible forbids) and being heavily involved in séances. Wilson also acted as a medium or channeler. It was while involved in these types of religious experiences, not Biblical Christianity, that Wilson developed his Twelve Steps (Pass It On, pp 156, 198, 275, 278).

MICKY said...

Nowhere in the 12 steps does it say that you should quit drinking, or help anyone else to quit drinking, either. Nowhere do the words SOBRIETY, RECOVERY, ABSTINENCE, HEALTH, HAPPINESS, JOY, & LOVE appear in the 12 Steps. The word ‘alcohol’ is only used once, when it was PATCHED into the 1st Step for the word “sin.” But Wilson wrote “ We are powerless over ‘alcohol’… Oxford Group Slogan; “We are powerless over sin & have been defeated by it.

Anonymous said...

A.A. has a dismal rate of failure. Even by its own estimates, A.A. only claims a 5% success rate, and even that might be generous. That rate is defined as meaning that of every 100 people that come through the door only 5 will still be in the group and sober a year later.

Of course, not all of those who leave the program necessarily return to drinking. Many people who come to A.A. and leave ultimately go on to healthy, happy and productive sober lives WITHOUT the coercive and intrusive A.A. program.

The fact is, the secret to quitting drinking is to simply STOP DRINKING ... to not pick up that first one. That, and the "One Day at a Time" message are the only two things worth taking note of in the entire A.A. program. The Big Book, the Steps, Sponsorship ... all of that can be thrown away. It is worse than useless ... it is harmful.

Anonymous said...

I disagree. Were it not for AA, I'd be long dead. If it in any way harmed me in the process of saving me, I've yet to see evidence of it.

Dirk Hanson said...

I feel I am in basic agreement with you. To me, the piece I wrote above is basically in sympathy with, or at least tolerant of, the A.A. experience.

Anonymous said...

I am currently in search for treatment of my Alcohol consumption...although at the time I am not drinking. I do gone episodic binges. I found this in my quest.

I would like to Add that AA is not Assciotiated with NA. In anyway.

But AA has not worked for me. I have accumlated 4 years...twice in AA. I have been trying to get permanant soberity from AA for about 16 years. So AA is batting 50% for me. If doing the samething over and over again and getting the same result is insane. I then would be crazy to keep trying AA. Though I do find it comforting that AA brought me to a higher level of how to treat other people. It really is not working for me.

Dirk Hanson said...

Sorry to hear AA hasn't been helpful for you. But if it worked for absolutely everyone, it would be a cure.

Anonymous said...

Dear "It really is not working for me." It didn't work for me for 11 years either. So I just plain quit and tried other things. Those didn't work either. Drinking was the only thing that made me feel better. So I just did a bunch of that - until I really "got" Step 1. I suggest you do the same.

Anonymous said...

What does God – or a, ahem, “Higher Power” have to do with not drinking?

After spending a few years in AA, they had me thinking that it was necessary to pray, to read their quasi-religious “Big Book,” and to go to tons of insipid meetings to “recover” from alcoholism.

What in G-d’s name does spirituality have in common with drinking? That’s frankly absurd. And why do I have to admit my sins and make everything has ever happened to me my fault to recover?

Further, if, as AA says, alcoholism is a disease, why is it that this process of confessing my sins cure alcoholism and not a drug or other therapy? I suspect like the waters of Lourdes "cure" the banal "stepwork" of AA does the same...

And why do I have to go to meetings once a day for the rest of my live thinking that AA has miraculously given me a “daily reprieve” from alcoholism? Why a “day? Why not a weekly reprieve? Or a monthly reprieve? How about a fortnight reprieve?

I guess you get the point -

Goliathslayer's Rants said...

Now, I am a fairly smart guy: what AA wants people to do is to shed their individualism, their creativity, intellect, to give up their “will” , their ego, their free-thinking – and exchange these things for a banal, bombastic groupthink based on some wackjob charismatic leader’s ramblings that have been unedited, essentially untouched from the time they were written in 1938. (Of course the stories in the back of the Big Book have been changed, to remove those of the folks who did not make it.)

To AA people - Un-unh. No. Go –AWAY. Pleeeese people stop calling me.

Stop telling me that if I don’t go to a meeting I will end up in jail. Or dead. That doesn’t get me better.

From my experience, I think that AA exists for one thing: to perpetuate AA. Hey are not interested in helping individuals, they are interested in perpetuating the myth that Bill Wilson was some sort of second messiah whose “Big Book” was somehow channeled to him by God. The truth is that it is not more than a banal rewriting of some very dated pop psychology and religion that was popular among a small group of white people before the Second World War. Just look at where AA puts its resources – recruitment, liason with government and “treatment industry” personnel, literature (propaganda), more.

“Work the steps” they say. Okay, I tried. I tried to figure out for years what that actually meant. The truth is that it does not mean anything; it’s a device created to promote homogeneity: so that the sponsors can tell their “sponsees” to “Get down on your knees and Pray harder”, “Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth,” “Get to more meetings,” “ help another Alcoholic, “ and other party-line nonsense. God forbid that anyone question the holiness of AA in one of the meetings, they laughed at as the clones look at one another and make faces.

And they are there to help me? How? By rehashing a bunch of gobbledygook from 1938 that they treat as the gospel and refuse to change? By making me make coffee and then telling me it’s too strong, or too weak? By making me concentrate on achieving some notion of “serenity?” whereby I place AA and my elusive “Sobriety” in front of my family, financial well-being, and my own religion?

The truth is that AA is a parasitic criminal enterprise that has taken advantage of our society’s lack of concern for the disenfranchised, the weak, the poor, the mentally ill, and the addicted. AA takes advantage of people when they are at their weakest, telling them that there are no other options – they are at the end of the road and unless they buy into the AA brainwashing, they will end up dead.

How many people have indeed died because of the lack of real options for treating their addiction? Why are they not able to choose an alternative to AA – such as Rational Recovery, SMART or any other non-12 step program when they are sentenced by the courts? They truth is, its AA or Jail, and frankly, I would rather choose jail. It’s so unfortunate that our society has decayed to the point where people with severe problems must choose mind-control or jail instead of something that can actually help restore them to being productive members of society.

Anonymous said...

I never thought AA would work for me. I tried for years all the ways the Big Book talked of others who had also tried. Switching drinks, eating while drinking, moving to another town, drinking water between drinks...etc. I am now sober for 7 yrs and go to meetings 3-4 times a week. I go not for myself but to share with others who are having a difficult time. I find that "getting out of myself" helps me. I did ask God to remove the craving of the drink from me. He did. I had no will power. I loved to drink and get drunk and feel NOTHING! I was never "there" for my sisters when family crisis came round. I am now. So whatever it was that worked suits me just fine. I hate to think that I would ever return to having to drink in the mornings and the rest of the day to just feel "normal". Live and let live!! Whatever floats your boat. I just know that the freedom I found from not drinking has served me well. Thanks for letting me share. Renee

Anonymous said...

My boyfriend is now in AA one more time after a few trial and errors. He is at home with an alcohol tether (basically a gun to his head) out on bond for his third drunk driving and going to meetings day and night (90 meetings in 90 days) to look good to the judge. I don't believe for one second that he will remain sober w=once the gun is uncoked but woh am I to say that he is faking the whole deal as to not go to prison for up to five years. He is always sober under duress. When he was testing once a week and paying $12.00 per test he simply drank after his test and remained sober until the next one....focing someone to stay sober doesn't work they have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired and when or IF they come to that conclusion and only then is it time. I am a christian and beleive in God but even God isn't listening to the little liar inside an alcoholisc scheming world....what's sad is that my boyfriend is really happy sober. I hope he chooses serenity.

Dirk Hanson said...

"forcing someone to stay sober doesn't work they have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired"
I agree.

Anonymous said...

Good stuff Dirk, I've recently gone back to AA after relapsing for a period of 7 mths. I was 3 yrs sober prior to the relapse and thought that i might be able to drink successfully because i'd worked the program and was'nt feeling so full of emotional pain anymore. Obviously, the drinking did'nt work out as hoped and i soon found myself drinking daily and heavily again. I accept that i just cant drink and i am currently 6 weeks sober and feeling a lot better already. I was sick of AA before the relapse(which was a trigger also i guess) but i have decided to go back to the meetings for the support and identification of some good friends there, i have had enough of the program though, i cannot constantly beat myself up anymore because "god" wont remove the "defects of character" that i continue to display. I will not be a passive clone any longer and have decided to try and figure out if i have any particular strengths that i could focus on, rather than dwelling on my impatience, intolerance, selfishness, arrogance, etc,etc. AA has got positives to offer, but there is a lot of nonsense too IMO. Everybody's different though and i can understand why some people might have had a bad experience with it.

Dirk Hanson said...

I doubt whether there's anybody who's been involved in the program who likes EVERYTHING about it. I bet Bill W. himself didn't like everything about it. Many of the AAers I have gotten to know have been cheerfully forthright about the program's failures as well as successes.

Anonymous said...

Would we look at all solutions that have worked if our mother, husband, or child had cancer? Alcoholism is worse. It's lifelong. There is no cure, only recovery. Recovery is like remission. It might come back if we are careless or even "unfortunate". For those who are honest during every step, and have a group that works steps instead of gripe sessions, AA frees the mind of the man who wanted to perhaps even die. Our choices, we alcoholics, are jail, insanity, death, or a life of sobriety in a happier and content dimension we never knew existed. It makes us able to be the great parents, wives, husbands, friends - that we always regreted we were not. It lifts the need for drink once we understand our affliction and how our actions and mistakes made us feel worthless. If we were called anything, I would say highly sensitive would be a compliment. We beat ourselves up in our drinking for all we knew we had done wrong. The truth set us free. And if you believe in A God, you have to thank him. He saved our lives, plain and simple. Bless you. : )

Anonymous said...

A.A., Mental Illness, and meds. Why is there still intolerance?!
I just lost all my close friends from AA, even my sponsor, ever since I went into the mental health unit of a local hospital and am not working since I was about to get fired due to shortcomings stemming from my mental illness so I filed for disability.
Mental illness isn’t treated by just medication alone, or at least it shouldn’t be. The patients should have a treatment program that involves medication management, therapy, a support group if there is one, and the family should be aware of their side effects from meds and symptoms that indicate a turn for the worse.
I've always felt I couldn't share anything about my depression or mood swings and how it affects my sobriety in meetings. The only time I did everyone said I should work the steps harder and I wouldn't dream of talking about medication for mental illness they all say it's picking up and I need to change my sobriety date. If I don't take my medication I end up in a mental hospital and cannot work or care for my child. I am also a single mother.
People with anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, or postraumatic stress disorder or PTSD, which isn’t just for soldier’s anymore, but also for people who have experienced trauma at some point in their lives are not all drug addicts because they take medication to be able to function in life. In my case, I have Bipolar disorder and PTSD from multiple traumas. I was molested by my 23-year-old neighbor for 5 years, age 6-11, told I was stupid, fat and would never amount to anything in life every day by my physically abusive father until I started running away, and then when I finally got old enough to get out and move in with my boyfriend he tried to choke me to death. I got away and fled to my parents house, locked all the doors, he punched his fist through the kitchen door window, reached in and opened the door and started choking me again. My mother finally called the police.

I have nightmares, flashbacks, and can’t remember anything. I write everything down. Whenever I’m under a lot of stress at a job, and I’m a teacher, kind of hard to avoid that, I eventually end up in a hospital. It’s happened three times in a short amount of time.

Point is, I don’t get why these friends just disappeared all of a sudden. I have new friends from church, neighbors, and a couple of women I met in the hospital, one inpatient, one outpatient. They all tell me not to let it get to me, that at least I have new friends. But it’s so hard not to feel disappointed about relationships I've had for almost 14 years.
Anybody ever have the same thing happen or have some ideas?

— Reprinted from The A.A. Member - Medications & Other Drugs, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.
“…A.A. members and many of their physicians have described situations in which depressed patients have been told by A.A.s to throw away the pills, only to have depression return with all its difficulties, sometimes resulting in suicide. We have heard, too, from schizophrenics, manic depressives, epileptics, and others requiring medication that well-meaning A.A. friends often discourage them from taking prescribed medication, Unfortunately, by following a layman’s advice, the sufferers find that their conditions can return with all their previous intensity…” “It becomes clear that just as it is wrong to enable or support any alcoholic to become readdicted to any drug, it’s equally wrong to deprive any alcoholic of medication which can alleviate or control other disabling physical and/or emotional problems.””

Anonymous said...

Thank God for attraction rather than promotion!

Anonymous said...

I've recently been attending AA meetings (only 3)as I feel my drinking is out of control. I don't get violent or anything like that when I'm drinking, in fact my family don't know, but I know it's affecting my health and memory and want to stop badly.
I'm very unsure about the AA meetings. The folk there seem nice enough, but the God, or higher power bit is very offputting to me, and the submission side of it too - I've always been very self reliant. But to hear about others stories is interesting - the least it does is make me realise that I'm lucky because I haven't slipped that far down - the most it's done is to give me hope that if they can do it I can too. I can't find another solution at the moment so will give it a go.

Anonymous said...

I attended two rehabs before quitting. The first was 12 step. Higher power meant Jesus. Prayer was encouraged. My statement that talking to God was as effective as Jimmy Stewart's talks with Harvey I was branded. "Oh, we find that intelligent people do not do well."

Meetings were detrimental. Hearing people ( who probably were still using ) talking of drugs and alcohol just made me want to go do it. The concept of being powerless fostered built in self defeat. I never understood how the "successful" ones could remember their end date. It probably was their umpteenth time and done in a drug induced fog. baffled me.
My second rehab was St. Jude's Mountain Retreat in the Adirondacks of New York State. It was a wonderful experience teaching the problem rests within, get yourself out of your immature behavior.

Anonymous said...

AA is a support group, no more. As a support group, it can surely help some. However, it is no "treatment program" and as many have pointed out, its success rate is abysmal, no higher than the rate of spontaneous remission. If it works for you, have at it, but I, as an alcoholic in recovery, have a real problem with the courts mandating people to this "program" and the level of reliance most (high priced) "rehab" facilities put on AA. Some 17 states have ruled that mandating people to AA with no comparable alternative is unconstitutional (and jail is not a comparable alternative). Think about it: is mandating someone to self-help even logical? Why do they do it? Cause, after millions of dollars (billions?) spent on research, they still don't have anything better. Yet lots of money is being spent (and made) on the "rehab" racket.
At the end of the day, the only way the alcoholic will recover is to JUST NOT PICK UP. Support groups surely can help, but the reality is it REALLY IS up to the individual's self-will: the self-will to survive and recover. It's not up to some nebulous higher power. And, no, AA is not the only or necessarily the best way to recover.

Dirk Hanson said...

I would argue with you about the abilities of "will power," so called, but I agree entirely that the courts should NEVER mandate attendance at AA meetings for ANYBODY. It's a voluntary organization and derives much of its strength from that fact. Lazy law enforcement has mucked that up a bit.

Presten Tok said...

Mr. Hanson, I'm sure, is soon to come out with another paper titled: "AA Doesn't Work - but My Cure is Guaranteed To! All it Costs is $19.95 plus Shipping and Handling! Trust me! I'm an Addiction Specialist Because The Diploma On the Wall Says That I Am!"

Here is the difference between an AA sponsor and a shrink who claims to be an addiciton specialist: An AA sponsor will never claim that he or she is an addiction specialist, only that they have more sobriety time then you. Also, shrinks will tell you what you want to hear because you're paying them to do so. A sponsor will tell you what you need to hear because they care about your recovery. People sometimes drop out of AA because they can't handle being told what they need to hear.

Dirk Hanson said...

Well no, actually. I'm a freelance journalist, not a psychiatrist or a treatment specialist. I don't back any particular treatment as right for everybody.

Anonymous said...

Some find help by the AA others not at the first time. AA is like diets: there are for every of this thousands of diets a few examples of success. Everybody has to find his own methode. When you feel more comfortable in joining a group, then AA is one option. This is not only my opinion - also Hans Durrer who just published his book "12-Step Addiction Treatment - Does AA Work?" comes to this conclusion. What helps is the right choice. For those who want to know - here is the source: Its only 19 pages long...

Anonymous said...

There are many misconceptions about AA. 1. AA is a treatment program. It is not; it is a living program.
2. AA accepts and offers help to everyone. It does not. There is a single prerequisite to membership in AA and that is a desire to stop drinking(see tradition 3 of AA).
If there is no desire on the part of the alcoholic to stop drinking they would in my personal opinion have a less than average chance to succeed. I do not speak for AA but only relate my experiences with the program. I have been sober for 18 years thanks to AA.

Anonymous said...

AA is a cult, pure and simple. Just an of shoot of Buchmanism. Alcoholism is not an allergy, it is not a disease, its just an addiction. Stop drinking, get a hobby, make some friends, get a healthy, undamaged therapist (one who is not associated with a 12 step program) and start growing and enjoying life.

Anonymous said...

I must say Goliathslayers you seem to be of a severe sociopathic nature and have contempt prior to investigation.....which does actually leave a man or in your case a prepubescent intellect in everlasting ignorance. AA never makes anybody do anything or tell people anything it merely sets down a way that has worked for others and it works for most that are willing to do it. AA never claims to have a monopoly on recovery or spirituality, it sets down principles to live a better life and serve a purpose, not just live in your severly messed up ego.....YOU are the problem with society Goliathslayer YOUR messed up EGO and many like you are the reason there is abuse, murder and rape. I hope you get the help you so desperately need. The reason AA doesn't work for people is because people can't level out thier highly messed up egos, not taking responsiblity for themselves and the things they have done and trying bits of the program or a watered down version. It works for those that give themselves to it 100 percent

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